Pause the recording.
Again, if it happens again, we could do the guest can do a screenshot and send them to
you and then you put it up.
Yeah, yeah, it was just, why didn't we think of that?
We will.
Okay, so everybody welcome.
Let's get this show on the road.
Welcome to Medical Doctors for COVID Ethics International.
We've had a slight technology delay.
Our guest today is Celia Farber.
I won't go through the normal introduction, but we, Stephen Frost started this group over
two years, almost three years ago.
Thank you all for attending, whether you're watching live or by recording.
And if you want the normal intro, you can go to another recording from another session.
They're all up here and we welcome Celia Farber.
Celia, you are a superstar, been a subscriber to your material for a long time, as has Stephen,
as have many people here.
So we are in your hands for as long as you wish to address us.
Over to you.
Thank you so much, all of you.
I thank you for your saintly patience with the technical mishaps and I'm really glad
we cracked it.
As I was preparing for this, I mean, I've had, let's see, the numbers are getting crazy.
I think 37 years on this story.
And yet when I'm asked to address it, especially the more time goes on, I find that it's like
being lost in a dark, dense woods and it's snowing and it's raining and it's dark.
And I think what can I tell them and how do I pull out of all the long history?
How do I crystallize it and what do I want to talk about?
What I find happens, and this kind of speaks to my presentation, is that because it was
so immensely violent and traumatic, when I try to organize and crystallize it, I myself
become, it's like being a trauma, like a tuning fork for the trauma.
And as I look at the stuff, I should know it like the back of my hand and I used to
be able to be very fluent in the essentials of the lies and the madness and so forth,
but it all kind of gets away from me.
So I thought what I really want to do is lean into a book that doesn't get talked about
a lot by an extraordinary, she's now passed away, investigative journalist and author
named Janine Roberts.
And the person that I speak to about Janine Roberts' work the most is Gary Null.
Gary Null and I are sort of a little obsessed about Janine Roberts and her book, and I'm
going to show you the cover of her book in a moment and why it's important.
So okay, first of all, my talk is called, as you can see, HIV and AIDS, some fragments,
should be some fragments, HIV and AIDS, some fragments of the long history of a death cult
that laid the foundation for brutality concealed as public health.
The thing I'm going to start with is the hardest part because it's the part that, as I mentioned
before, kind of gets away from me.
I have to work really hard to present, represent and articulate this stuff.
And this stuff is the stuff about the foundation and what happened and what Gallo did.
And I am not personally interested in it anymore, if ever I was, as what we call science.
I don't quite see it as science anymore.
There's science in it, but I see it as, I mean, it's sort of like going back and look
at something like the US invasion of Iraq and trying to describe that as a war.
Why was it a war?
You know, it's crazy.
You can't do it.
And it's the same with this.
The same war machine that's doing everything in our traumatized world also did this thing.
So I think I'm a little bit at odds with some of the other longstanding HIV dissidents in
that I think they still at some level believe that disentangling, maybe not Dave Rasnik,
my dear friend, Dave Rasnik.
I want to hear what Dave says later.
Violence, trauma, mind control, monarch mind control.
These are my themes.
Crowd psychosis.
Lately, I've been getting into Renée Girard a lot and writing about Renée Girard.
You know, Elias Kennedy, who's right here with me, I'm always and sort of, so I work
in a fairly lonely way with all these themes.
Trying to get out of this forest I described, trying to piece back, but piece back, you
know, what on earth happened and how can I not a scientist?
And I've never been good on the science and it doesn't interest me because I don't see
stories in science.
I see stories in people and there's a cliche about this.
I see a story about a scientist who's trying to capture his destiny.
And so as a very, I started on the story, heaven forbid, in 1987 as a very young reporter
at Spin Magazine.
I had been an intern and I had just gotten a little window where they were, they first
let me write my first photo caption.
I'll never forget.
Like that took six months.
And I eventually, at that time I was obsessed with AIDS in the negative sense.
I had downloaded the Terror and the PsiOp, what was I, 20 or 21?
And I believed like everybody, it worked on me.
I believed I was going to drop dead any minute because I had things in my past where they
had pretty much arranged the first blast so that everybody was in some kind of tertiary
transmission risk group.
So that trauma and terror of believing I was going to die turned into a research obsession.
And my very first, what became my first article that I worked on for a year and it got published
in Spin Magazine was about an egg lipid substance called AL721 that came from the Weissman Institute
in Israel.
And there were these underground places in New York where sick gay men were cooking this
stuff up and taking it.
And I think this early part of the story is really a testament to, I guess, desperation
and wishful thinking.
And I believed in the very beginning that this egg lipid stuff was the thwarted cure
for AIDS and so on and so on.
So okay, you know, first pancake.
The second article was an interview with Peter Duisburg and this happened at the end of 1987.
1987 was also the year Peter Duisburg, sorry, I'm making a few presumptions that people
here know who Peter Duisburg is, but I'll just say it very simply.
The forerunner and primary, both champion and scapegoat of the original massive scientific
challenge to Gallo's so-called HIV theory, which really is an HIV PsiOp, as we will discuss.
But we upgraded it always by calling it a theory, by calling it a hypothesis, and it
was neither.
So this is just a little bit of early history.
I interviewed Peter Duisburg.
What happened actually was that I pitched, John Lauritsen, who left us last year, incredible
writer and researcher and author, who went out against all of the gay community and said that
AZT was deadly and toxic and was killing gay men, which of course it was.
The New York native got bullied and boycotted and targeted and harassed out of business
by ACT UP, which demanded of the entire New York gay community that they boycott the native,
never read it, never buy it.
And eventually the native had to close its doors.
That's one of countless examples of exactly the way everything was back then.
They weren't able to target, harass, destroy every last person who touched it, but they
chose to borrow René Gérard's term, they chose scapegoats.
They chose certain thought leaders, certain periodicals.
I certainly was one of them.
They showed the entire world that if you touch this, this is what will happen to you.
So really my story that if I could transcend the trauma, I would like to tell one day is
the story of how they did that.
Many of you present are living versions of that right now, so maybe you don't need me
to tell you that story.
But that I think is the dark art that they sharpened and honed in the AIDS years.
My editor said, don't mention this Peter Duisburg interview.
I said, I want to look, I showed him the cover of the New York native.
Here's the scientist at Berkeley and he's the top retro virologist and he doesn't think
HIV causes AIDS.
And he says he's willing to be injected with it.
And all I knew at the time, I had recently come back to the United States after growing
up in Sweden, but I started out a native New Yorker, but my mother moved us to Sweden when
I was 11.
So I came to the United States very naive, very earnest as Swedes tend to be.
And I thought, well, this will make a fantastic article and everyone's going to love this.
So I got the first sign of trouble when my immediate supervisor, my editor said, not
only are we not doing this, you're never to mention it again.
And you're going to do dolphins and AIDS this month.
But I had already put the call in to Peter Duisburg, to Peter Duisburg's lab in Berkeley
and early the next morning, my phone rang.
It was Peter Duisburg calling me back and he treated me like I was like anybody, like
I was just like I was somebody.
How do I say this?
There was something about that very first conversation that was so incredibly surprising
and thrilling to me that I wasn't spoken down to, I wasn't condescended to.
Literally in my pajamas, I turned the tape recorder on and we had a fantastic, very straightforward
conversation which left me riveted.
I transcribed it right away and I did something a little bit, I guess the word might be cheeky.
I put it under the door of the publisher of the magazine so I bypassed my immediate superior
editors orders and his name is Bob Gaccione Jr.
And he called me that night and he said, I read it, it's riveting, we're going to run
it and this is the most important interview I will ever publish in my life.
So he and I shared that and then we were off to the races.
So it was 10 years of this material.
I mean I remember when I found David Razznick and one after the other, these characters
that seemed to come out of a novel, they were all, they were brilliant, they were morally
morally reassuring I would say because they spoke of this world that they felt hell bent
on preserving where two plus two equals four.
And I had many of these amazing scientists to myself largely for many years, sorry that's
not accurate.
There were others who covered the story, most notably the New York native in New York, Joan
Shenton in the UK, Medi-Tel Productions, Jad Adams, later on Hugh Christie and Continuum.
So to their absolute devastation we kept kind of mushrooming around the world and then they
perfect sharpened their knives and perfected their violence and censorship.
And in the end their violence, censorship, punishments, defundings, deplatformings and
worse, dot dot dot, there were people who died under very strange circumstances.
All of that led to that the war finally kind of ended I would say in 2008 and we were defeated
not for being wrong, we were defeated, just we were just bludgeoned and we couldn't carry
on.
And then there was a lull and then COVID came roaring onto the landscape in 2020 and those
of us who were still around saw that we had had this, I'm going to say like we had the
tale of the beast but we did not know, we had not seen the beast, we didn't know what
the tale was connected to.
Okay, now I'm going to get to the substance of my talk lest I drift off too much into
all that history.
So here is the cover of Janine Roberts book and I think it came out somewhere around 2004
and what Janine did was something as far as I know none of us did, I certainly didn't.
She actually delved into the archives which were created through a massive government
investigation, it was called the Dingle Committee and the Dingle Committee was a, Robert Gallo
stood rightly accused of misappropriating the, I call it the blob, but the sample from
the Pasteur Institute and the French that he had gotten his hands on.
Number one he tried to say that it was his and had come from his lab, number two that
it was evidence of a psychopathic retrovirus and the cause of AIDS which had then been
found by him in his lab.
So the Dingle Committee when they went after Gallo for scientific theft and fraud, they
didn't look really what was in the papers and Janine Roberts, well they did, they found,
they looked for theft, but they did not look for the most, they did not look for the third
rail issue, did Gallo have proof of a deadly virus.
They just assumed that he did and that he had stolen it.
Peter Duisburg famously said that whole thing was who stole who's fake diamonds.
So Janine Roberts actually tackled all these documents and in her book, which I'm just
going to lead you to where the smoking guns are, as far as I'm concerned the smoking guns
are all in Janine Roberts book and we need go no further.
So many people have done spectacular work.
Peter Duisburg, David Rasnik, the Perth Group, there's the rethinking AIDS site, I can direct
you to all these sites and it's not to take it away from anything anybody did, but she
actually finds the character that creates the destiny, the unbelievable character of
this figure named Robert Gallo.
In recent years, Tony Fauci has come into the spotlight much thanks to the great work
of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and others and he is very important, he's the godfather and
so forth, but Gallo's fraud, which amazingly was pollinated into the, well the bloodstream
of scientific literature and then became a two trillion dollar PSYOP lie and deadly industry
that paved the way for COVID.
Here's where it all began.
So I'm not going to go through this like with super tedium because I can't, again I look
at it and I just go, this is just so insane.
It's like looking at, if those of you read my sub stack, you know that I see the world
now through things like monarch programming and this is very monarch stuff like reversal,
inversion, nothing makes any sense, but let's try to get through it.
Okay, so on page 120 of Janine Robert's book, this is in a chapter called fraudulent papers.
She describes the incredible drama of Gallo and his primary lab technician Mika Popovic,
who was of Czech origin and he's a very like complex Shakespearean figure.
Gallo gives him what I call the blob, flies off to Europe and starts doing promotion for the big
bang to come that he found the cause of AIDS and he was going to publish his papers in science and
the whole world was going to change and this was going to be the fulfillment for a whole generation
of what's called virus hunters.
You know there are so many books about all this but I think you all know this stuff already.
So what actually happens is that Popovic runs proper electron microscopy experiments and another
guy, Matthew Gonda, and to radically simplify they did not find retroviral activity, retroviruses,
budding, retroviral particles or any of that stuff that we're supposed to believe was there.
They didn't find the cause of AIDS, they didn't find pathogenesis, but the reason I call this
the smoking gun, everybody knows there was no there there, everybody knows Gallo didn't
prove anything. You've heard Carrie Mullis say over and over, I kept asking for the paper that
proves it, nobody would give me the paper. What you actually see here in Gallo's own,
I'm going to flip back and forth a little bit just so you can sort of get a visual here,
in Gallo's own handwriting, so it's the lab notes, is that he reverses the conclusions
of his own lab assistant who, back to our story and our drama, had taken off for a ski trip
most likely because, and he also secured these papers in the possession of his sister,
I think in Switzerland, so you see all this stuff going on. Gallo comes back from his European
promotional tour and flips out, I don't know if I have the page here, but there's a famous
part of it where he says he writes in the margin, Mika, are you crazy? And he's scolding him and
berating him and that's classic Gallo. So we're just going to cut to the chase right now and then
we're going to move on. Reading from Jeanine Roberts's words here, Gallo had changed the
title of the paper. When published, it would claim that they had isolated the virus. There
was no mention of isolation in the title originally. There were no experiments in it designed to
isolate the virus for research purposes. Giant nucleated cells were produced in their culture.
They indicated the presence of a cancer, not a virus. But when I turned the page, I was riveted.
Gallo had deleted a statement by Popovic saying, here it is, smoking gun, smoking gun, smoking gun.
Despite intensive research efforts,
can you believe it, the causative agent of AIDS had not yet been identified.
So what what Jeanine Roberts brought to all this was things like this, what I've highlighted here,
from what I read, Popovic seems to have been entirely honest in reporting their renaming of
the French virus, although he must have known this would make Gallo furious. This made me wonder if
Popovic had wisely decided to make Gallo write the deceptive text himself. Was this why Popovic
went away to ski? I hope the rest of his original type draft would be equally honest.
And here she writes,
let's see if I can read this.
Yeah, I'm interested in her words, precisely the opposite, because I'm interested in, I've kind of
begun to learn to learn about inversion, that there's something about lies and deceptions,
that when they reverse it completely, it's not going to be the same.
It's not going to be the same thing.
So this is the original, let's see, where are we? Sorry. The original wording was,
the original wording was,
was, despite intensive research efforts, the causative agent of AIDS had not yet been identified.
Gallo comes back, screams, yells, in his own hand, writes in the margins,
Mika, are you crazy? What is the matter with you, et cetera.
And then he writes that a retro, I mean, he reverses it to that a retrovirus of the HTLV family,
that's, that's quote unquote, his family, leukemia viruses, originally, might be an etiological agent
of AIDS was suggested by the findings.
Janine Roberts wrote,
I then found Popovic had upset Gallo still further in the very next sentence by calling Gallo's
theory that a retrovirus caused AIDS an assumption. Gallo deleted this word, replacing it with
hypothesis, as can be seen in the clipping below. So here's the absolutely breathtaking, well,
I think all of this is breathtaking. I hope you agree.
Six days after this traumatic battle between Gallo and Popovic, where I see Popovic
cowering, of course, this is all domination games and Gallo and he, I received his wrath
over the phone. I think the year was 1988. And I got back to the office and there was a message
that Bob Gallo had called. And I was petrified, I was petrified. And then I called him back and
he just screamed and screamed. And it's all in my book. What is the matter with you? What is the
matter with you? Are you ruining your life? Don't you want to be like me? I'm not going to be like
you. This is, this is the last screen. This is the last screen of the book. And it's all in my
book. It's all in my life. Don't you want to be like Barbara Walters? Do you know how you can get
to be like Barbara Walters? Not by doing stuff like this. This whole thing is driven by these
So this is the last screen on this subject.
Gallo replaced the words of his lab colleague Popovic,
who said the cause of AIDS had not been found
with the words that said precisely the opposite.
Six days later, the paper with Gallo's revision
was submitted to Science Magazine and the rest is history.
There were actually four back-to-back papers in science.
The astonishing thing where I think we can't look at science,
we have to look at psychology, mass psychology.
People look at money, but that doesn't really explain it.
There was a powerful spell and a powerful,
just a total climate of,
nobody would stand up to this in their right mind.
And I think if historians are looking at this
however many years from now,
that's the same thing that we all looked at
and it's not possible to answer,
not even by greed, not even by ambition.
You have to look at,
here's my guy, René Girard.
You have to look at the scapegoat mechanism.
I put some René Girard quotes together.
I think this one is particularly good.
Behind every act of violence lies a desire
for recognition and status.
And Dave Rasnick knows this better than most people alive.
The language of AIDS was the language of violence
and the language of,
do you wanna lose everything?
Do you wanna lose your career?
Like extreme, extreme bullying.
And it was almost as though they were saying all the time,
we're not even exactly saying it's right.
We're saying we can and will destroy you
if you go against it.
And I think that actually caused people's
so-called scientific minds to flip
and they thought they were seeing something
they weren't seeing.
But the beautiful part is this did not happen to everybody.
There's Carrie.
Sorry.
That's one of my quotes,
one of the quotes from Carrie Mullis
from one of my interviews and I love that quote.
Here we have the saints marching in.
This is a list as of 2000.
Celia, can you read it out that quote please?
Oh, sorry, yes I can.
The mystery of that damn virus has been generated
by the $2 billion a year they spend on it.
You take any other virus and spend $2 billion,
you can make up some great mysteries about it too.
Carrie Mullis, Nobel laureate.
Carrie Mullis, Nobel laureate, 1992
for the invention of polymerase chain reaction,
not the PCR test as people often slightly say,
say slightly erroneously.
It's not the PCR test he invented.
And we could talk forever about Carrie.
We knew him and loved him and there's a lot to say
about that but he said everything while he was alive
and what he is saying right here
is the essence of everything.
The mystery of that damn virus has been,
okay, so he's focusing on the money
but what you see in this observation is
they projected onto absolutely nothing,
a belief, an absolute,
in other words, they told the whole world
you are seeing something here, you are seeing something here.
So we know this can happen
but we still can't quite believe it.
And it's Hans Christian Andersen's child.
It's mass hysteria, it's everything with COVID,
it's everything we're living.
So I think now AIDS is but an early,
extremely tragic example of the waters we swim in.
And I always call everything monarch now.
The waters we swim in, namely,
those people out there who are generating all of these
traumatic simulation experiences for humanity
were never trying to be accurate.
They're not trying to be accurate now.
I think what's different about the HIV story
is that there was such an enormous effort
in so many countries over so many years
with so many professionals
and scientists and doctors and academics and journalists
to sandbag it, to stop it.
And it depends which lens you're using to look at it.
Was it a success, a failure?
Was the war won?
Was the war lost?
I think putting everything on the record
means that something was gained and won.
And you can see that in this slide here,
something enormous was gained and won.
And when I look at things like this,
I think it's actually pretty amazing
that I guess that we got as far as we did.
So here's a list.
I love this list and I talk about it a lot
and I wanna talk about it more.
These are, this is as of 2012.
So this is now 12 years ago.
This was obviously, this list is,
is not circulating anymore because this war is over
and they've moved on.
But this was 2,897 signatories
to the dissent against the HIV lie.
And as it says here, they included 608 PhDs, 377 MDs,
three Nobel laureates
with a combined four Nobel prizes in chemistry.
Kerry is one of them.
You can see this list.
You can see this list if you want to at rethinkingaids.com
under a link that says signatories.
I think this is important.
Obviously, all these people,
every single person who signed this list
was also signing on to, as I say here,
professional and economic blight, if not annihilation.
And here's my key.
Here's the good news.
This many did it anyway.
And we should, we should be grateful for that.
God bless these people.
Here's a typical, very typical,
I could call up thousands of headlines.
It was the same article replicated again
and again and again.
We'll be familiar to all of you in the COVID era.
So I'll read what I've written here on this slide.
Between 1987 and 2008, thousands of media outlets
wrote versions of the same article
accusing AIDS deniers of mass murder, AIDS deniers in quotes.
Peter Duisburg was the primary scapegoat.
We were terrorized, abused, targeted, defunded,
mocked and accused without respite.
It was psychological warfare.
And by the way, in that psychological warfare,
some people did well and some people did less well.
And I did much less well in that psychological warfare.
I experienced from the, let me, I'll show you.
I've never shown this before.
I don't think I have.
So that's me with blood on my face.
And I was told by the person or somebody who knew the person
who created it, that this was real human blood.
They made one of these for myself, for Peter Duisburg,
for the Perth group, Elena Eliopoulos,
maybe Dr. Roberto Giraldo.
And also the Foo Fighters,
which is an interesting story in and of itself.
So the idea here, well, okay, let me read what I've written.
In 2006, after Harper's published an 11,000 article of mine,
two years in the making called
Out of Control, AIDS and the Corruption of Medical Science,
a British HIV researcher named John P. Moore
set up an attack website from South Africa called,
and he was in New York, but the site was from South Africa,
called AIDStruth.org.
A gay activist in London created this.
I remember vividly when I first saw this,
and again, I said, I didn't do so well with,
the thing to do would have been to be armed against,
and either laugh at it or dismiss it,
but I was very receptive to this voodoo.
I knew after my Harper's article that I,
they had been after me for a long time
and all kinds of crazy things had happened,
but I was officially marked for complete annihilation
after that Harper's article, which they really didn't like.
And it exposed a lot of,
it exposed the dark Anthony Fauci AIDS apparatus,
it exposed human experimentation, it exposed murder,
it exposed extreme corruption and death and murder
and criminal trials for AIDS drugs in Africa.
AIDS was a massive, massive cover story
and front operation for so many different kinds of evil.
And for me, the kinds of evil,
the scariest part of it was that it was not merely greed.
It was not merely money laundering on a Titanic scale.
It was also some kind of what I have to call occult operations.
As I think, I think you can see in this picture,
the people who were against us
and they did seem to particularly hate the women,
although they also, more than anybody,
they hated Peter Duesberg.
How can I say this?
They were not normal.
The attacks were not normal.
The things that happened to us
and the way that they spoke of us was,
it's really something else to hear yourself
constantly referred to as a member of a group of people
who are responsible for the deaths of millions,
which really is, it's easy to say
who cares what those idiots think,
but they're really putting people in a frequency of terror
and it's like degradation.
This is where I have to go back to Renée Girard.
Let's look at some of the Renée Girard quotes in a little.
Okay, first we're gonna look at an Elias Canetti quote.
I love Elias Canetti.
I love crowds and power, one of my Bibles.
I highly recommend everybody read it.
What's a baiting crowd according to Elias?
He won the Nobel Prize, by the way, in 1961 for this book
and it's really a masterpiece.
It's these somewhat dreamy meditations
on how packs operate, groups, crowds.
He talks about crowd, crystals,
that there are all these different kinds of formations
that human beings make,
which also slots in a lot with Renée Girard
about scapegoats and about sacrifice.
Everything I think about now, I think about in these terms.
And I realized that everything that happened
was inevitable, endlessly cyclical.
This is absolutely how humanity is
and probably always will be.
So it wasn't like there was some kind of terrible aberration
or mistake, it's just that we live in the modern era.
And so these are kind of modern ways
of doing the scapegoat mechanism
and offering up different kinds of persons for sacrifice,
which is the scapegoat mechanism.
And I listened to some people talking about Girard
the other day and I got a new angle.
I can't remember their names, but they were saying,
one of the scapegoat traditions and mechanism
is to offer up the best for sacrifice.
So that's kind of how I see
what they did to Peter Duisburg.
I've always been fascinated by him and I still am.
And I actually got to see him on a Zoom call the other day.
And I'm happy to say he's doing really well.
Most of you probably know he had a stroke in 2021,
but he's improving and he's all there.
His soul, his spirit.
When I see that innocence in him,
I see the whole story kind of writing itself out
in a different way.
He came over from Germany, superstar, young,
minted from the Max Planck Institute,
but he did not have the American,
he didn't get the memo about what is science
in the United States after the war
and what is this Fauci apparatus.
So everything he did was sort of tragically marked
by his own really wonderful qualities
of naivete, purity, which he took for granted
that that's how a scientist behaves.
And all the names you saw on that list,
they took that for granted as well.
So it's a massive drama.
It's a massive, massive drama, this whole thing.
Okay.
A scapegoat remains effective, sorry about the typo,
as long as we believe in its guilt.
Having a scapegoat means not knowing that we have one.
We bond, again, Girard, we bond together in mutual hatred.
No one needs to be taught to scapegoat.
We do it instinctively.
Instead, we actively need to be taught not to scapegoat.
And lastly, behind every act of violence
lies a desire for recognition and status.
Yeah, you can say that again.
So this morning, Kevin Corbett, who you all know well,
called me to say, I can't come to your presentation
because I'm gonna be at a family event.
And I said, Kevin, I'm glad you called.
Who is that guy you talk about?
I think he fits in with these themes
I wanna present today.
And he knew exactly what I meant.
I said that death-making guy.
So Kevin brought to my attention
this very interesting researcher
who like Peter Duisburg, he came over from Germany.
He was only 16 when he came to the United States.
Wolfensberger.
And he saw, and he saw it more and more clearly,
mostly toward the end of his,
I mean, it got more intense toward the end of his life,
but he saw this, what shall I say, phenomenon,
and he called it death-making,
which is a really good name for what happened
in HIV AIDS, what happened in COVID,
what happens with all this stuff.
So what did Wolfensberger mean by death-making?
What he meant, what he saw in medicine was that,
well, you can see the title of his book,
The New Genocide of Handicapped and Afflicted People.
And this book here,
a guideline on protecting the health and lives
of patients in hospitals,
especially if the patient is a member
of a societally devalued class.
So what Wolfensberger, and now, I'm total novice.
As of this morning, I needed Kevin to remind me
who this guy was, but I think we should all look into him.
What he saw was that they were beginning in the,
I guess he was beginning to observe this,
I wanna say in the 70s, but I'm not entirely sure
that may have been when he,
he may have started it earlier than that.
So again, if anybody here is a Wolfensberger expert
and I'm botching it, forgive me.
But here's what I do know about Wolfensberger.
He was seeing that they were,
that the medical system was finding ways to kill people off,
to sort of prepare people for death
by rendering them as good as already dead.
And that is absolutely in a nutshell,
what I saw, what we saw in HIV AIDS.
And if anything was the thing I was fighting against most,
it was that.
In other words, an antibody test that obviously doesn't,
doesn't test for illness to come,
doesn't test for infection or virus or any of that.
But what it did do was it marked people
for death in this apparatus because everybody had agreed,
if you test positive, you've got the deadly virus
and you're going to die.
Gallo in his insanity initially declared
that people would die within six months of testing positive
and then it became a year and then five years and 10 years
and maybe it's 30 years.
But what stuck with people was if I get a positive test,
I'm already dead.
It was very weird.
Again, I use the word occult.
It was, there was no way to say how long a person might live
or die after a test like that.
But they kind of went to this,
what's the word I'm looking for, oracle.
And the oracle always told them bad news.
The oracle always said, HIV is deadly, we'll kill you.
Gallo's famous quotes, god, he's so crazy.
Things like Gallo would kill, I'm sorry,
HIV would kill Clark Kent.
HIV kills like a truck.
No mitigating factors, no co-factors, no hope, no nothing,
no nutrition, forget about it.
It was just a death blow.
And all of us who were fighting
in this dismal, grisly war,
I think that was the main thing we were,
as I say, sandbagging.
Gallo didn't prove it, Gallo didn't prove it.
Hold off, everybody.
Don't believe these people.
You don't have to agree to die.
And they would die, especially in Africa.
I spent a month crossing Africa with two colleagues.
In Africa, the death, the voodooing
was even more effective in a way.
And I heard stories of people would just be told they had,
they called it slim disease there,
and they would just sort of go down to the river and die.
So it was extreme voodoo.
And it was extremely cruel.
And it meant that all these people,
anybody who tested positive was cut off from hope or,
I guess, and even cancer patients,
you didn't quite see this, a cancer patient.
And of course, I detest the cancer industry,
but at least they were on a sort of scale of,
we find your cancer, we blast you with chemotherapy,
and I think there is sacrifice in it,
in the cancer model as well.
But with HIV, they were already dead.
If a woman in the, let's say late 80s,
clear through maybe to the early 90s,
tested HIV positive and was pregnant,
she was absolutely brow beaten and bullied
to have an abortion.
Your child will die, you're gonna die any minute.
And it was so lurid and primitive and relentless.
And the weirdest thing about it was that
we were in trouble for mitigating
or complicating that death story.
If you told people, hold off, you don't have to die.
First of all, read these papers, deep program yourself.
Here's some studies about repairing gut function
or improving nutrition and certainly going off
the toxic drugs.
And here are people who have been HIV positive
for 25 years plus and they haven't gotten sick
and they haven't died.
You would think that normal people
would be happy to hear stuff like that,
but it was despised, it was despised.
God, it was the weirdest thing.
And I think really what we were looking at
is this Wolfensberger.
It's like the beginning of what we're now up to our necks
and the beginning of the normalization of eugenics,
of mass killing, of depopulation
with only the thinnest of pretexts during the HIV years.
But what they branded successfully was,
as I said, those people are already dead.
So when all the AZT victims started to die
and the estimate is 300,000, mostly gay men,
perished from early high dose AZT
because people in the trance
and the monarch simulation believed
there was an AIDS virus and it killed people very fast.
Everybody believed that's what they were looking at.
People who were already going to die.
And we all fought this.
If there was a mother who had a baby
and she was HIV positive,
all the powers, there are so many horrendous stories.
You weren't allowed to, like, let's say she decided,
they actually started to push AZT for pregnant women.
AZT is a mutagen, teratogen and carcinogen
and said to be the most toxic drug
ever given to human beings.
It's a chemotherapy, DNA, chain terminator.
And this business of the golden rule in pregnancy,
which is now totally gone with the COVID shots,
they really broke a lot of things down in AIDS.
They broke that one down in 1994
when they got fake science to show that AZT lessened
the number of babies born HIV positive, total BS, all of it.
But with that, they had broken down the firewall
of not giving pregnant women anything at all.
Now they could get a drug that was class,
I think they've removed this as well,
the whole class C and class D, teratogen, mutagen.
When you try to find all that for the COVID shots,
you can't find it.
So the things that were laid down
as foundational principles during AIDS,
things that were laid down were,
I'm gonna try to say them in some kind of reasonable order.
Putative, virus, no proof of isolation,
no proof of causation, no classical causation,
no Cox postulates, no nothing,
just a really well-crafted terrifying PsiOP
coming through the media that seem,
if it has science in it,
it's the science of psychological warfare,
the science of MKUltra, the science of Monarch programming,
the science of trauma.
Next comes death making.
An antibody test is launched, of course, Gallo's patent.
All these guys had patents on these tests
and people believed that this was a test
that would tell them if they would live or die.
So people became like negatively obsessed with the tests
and later with so-called viral load testing, which used PCR.
So definitely the gay community,
but also not the gay community,
people would in the 80s and the 90s,
they got people so crazy that they believed
that when they woke up on a given day,
they were only going to live if they ran out to get a test
telling them they were still okay.
So this is a massive attack and assault
on everything that had been before,
that you're okay unless for some reason you're not okay.
Instead it was nobody's okay,
everybody has to get tested all the time.
And I don't have that many ideas
that I think are like truly my own in all of this.
I mostly was a reporter and interviewing other people
about what they were thinking.
But one idea that I have that is my own
is that I think it's a dark,
it's a dark mimicry of the financial system.
In other words, debt usury,
you everybody was in debt to an illness
they didn't have yet.
And so I feel like they sort of,
and that's the monetary black magic came from that,
that they launched a whole new way of people thinking about,
I guess I would call it health and medicine,
that's completely taken out of the human body,
nobody's even thinking about how they feel.
Certainly nobody's thinking about nutrition
or health or toxins or anything else.
Everything is outsourced to this evil new place,
which is diagnostic testing, surrogate markers.
You know, you can,
there's no way to describe the colossal money,
but worse than the money,
worse than the exploitation and the gold rush
is that they flipped people's minds so badly.
And that's certainly, wow, I mean, talk about Psyop.
Before AIDS, I guess it's fair to say people believe
that sex caused life.
After AIDS, people were all on board,
unless they were deprogrammed with that sex caused death.
So what else do we have introduced here?
Terror of other humans, terror of human intimacy,
terror, it's like biology as terrorism,
virus as terrorists.
And all this is happening by and through
and from the same military apparatus
that brought you everything, all the wars, 9-11.
What people didn't catch though
was that they were thinking like that,
they were primed and brainwashed to think that way
and now about their own biology, cells,
their own, you know, that there's some little
microscopic organism that you picked up from somebody
somewhere and now it's trying to kill you.
And this is so absolutely outrageous.
It's such an attack on everything, everything known,
everything sacred.
I would say an attack on God, not just I would say,
but it was an attack on God.
It is formally known as the machine model of biology
comes in around World War I and it's post-Darwinism
and it says, human beings are machines.
We are the tinkerers, we are the fixers.
We will tell these human beings when they have a broken part
and we will replace it.
This was explained to me by an amazing scientist
named Richard Stroman, Dave Brasnik knew him too.
He was a genetic, he was a geneticist who lectured
around the world in the last years of his life,
warning people against genetic determinism.
So in this beautiful, in this beautiful coterie,
there were many laments and cries
and things people were talking about
that didn't all take center stage.
What tended to take center stage was the, I think,
very boring endless battle of what did Gallup prove
or not prove and I'm sorry, I bored you with it earlier,
but I want you to know where to go for the smoking gun.
But there was so much else in it.
There was so much else going on with alienation,
separation, apartheid, technocracy,
everything that we are now living in this frankly nightmare.
They really laid down the capstones in HIV AIDS
and we just didn't know what was going on.
We didn't know who these people were, where they came from
and if we made a miscalculation or error,
I mean, apart from that they would just stomp us bloody
and dead and we'd have no chance.
The miscalculation I think is to look too much
at the esoteric science and not nearly enough
at the mind assault, mind rape, psychology
of MKUltra monarch programming and that all comes out of,
and that's literally Joseph Goebbels.
Wait, that might be wrong.
Do I mean Goebbels?
No, I mean the other one.
Very famous, very famous Nazi.
Sorry, there's another one.
I think I got that name wrong.
In any case, I wanna ask what time it is.
It was during.
During, thank you.
Now I see that my clock here is 4.32.
So I think that means, so I got us off to late start
and I think I've spoken for one hour.
I had intended not to speak so long
because I really wanted to ask you all,
what do you wanna ask me because it's so much,
it's so much, it's so much and I tried to throw
as much as I could into the basket.
I had initially pulled out a video of Janine Roberts
that I wanted to play for you.
It's eight minutes long and it's not about the Gallo stuff
because we already went over that.
It's where she talks about what she found
about what retroviruses and viruses actually are
and it's this beautiful story,
sort of like a Fantasia story she tells.
Janine was transgender and I feel like somehow
her perspectives on all this,
I don't just rave about her work
because she got the smoking gun with Gallo and all that,
but because the story she tells in Fear of the Invisible,
it's like a love story where she narrates the real story
of how magnificently made we are and what's really going on
in what gets falsely accused by the virus hunters
and the warmongers as viruses trying to kill us
and she turns it around and I found this clip
that Gary Knoll filmed with her and it was eight minutes long
but now I'm on the fence whether we have time for that
or whether we should just go straight to Q and A.
Yes, play it.
Play it.
Play it, okay, wonderful, I love you guys.
That's not it, wait a minute, here we go.
Sorry, I have, you go away, okay, here we go.
These documents are dated before the name HIV came into use.
It wasn't used before 1986.
So you actually quite clearly fraudulent.
The evidence was so strong that
the congressional investigator,
Rebecca Sells, John Dingle.
Celia, we can't see the movie.
Oh, I'm sorry, what's happening?
You can't see the screen?
Oh, oh, I gotcha, okay, I see what happened.
I clicked on it and I'm watching it on YouTube on my screen.
Yes, I think you have to close the PowerPoint.
There it is, good.
Now you see it?
Yeah.
Press that.
Yeah, we see her, yeah.
These documents are dated before the name HIV.
Is that working?
Yep.
Yeah, what did you say at the beginning?
I can't, I can't.
Okay, I'll rewind it.
Everyone can see it and hear it, right?
Yep. Yes, okay.
These documents are dated before the name HIV
came into use.
It wasn't used before 1986.
So you actually, quite clearly fraudulent.
The evidence was so strong that
the congressional investigator,
Rebecca Sells, John Dingle,
and the Secret Service had these documents presented
to a state attorney general for prosecution.
And it was ruled out of time
because it had taken so many years to uncover this.
And therefore, on a technicality,
as we can judge, he was not prosecuted for the fraud.
But I mean, that's what he said.
I was never, he sent an email to me
which I believe is just in my book.
Full, I don't believe in hiding anything.
So the whole, not censored,
the entire attack from him is in the book.
And the Secret Service, the guys who were off the test me,
they were saying he's wrong.
And I told Robert Garner that,
he has no response to talk to him now.
I haven't gotten touch with Popovic.
Popovic was offered a professorship
in Robert Garner's new institute in Baltimore.
Garner was kicked, were basically told, I understand.
I was like, no.
He was told he had to leave the NIH
after it was proved he was told the French virus.
A year later, he set up in Baltimore, the IHV,
his own institute, not HIV, but all to the round,
where he's currently advising African governments
financed by Bill Gates and the Defense Department.
Just two years ago, he put out on his website
that he got a new idea on HIV.
He's still highly influential, this man.
He's the guru of the HIV establishment.
He put out on his website that anyone who,
anyone who fears that they've had a night of unguarded sex,
that they're not trusting their partner,
should go on antiretropharals.
A year later, the CDC made this official policy
in the United States.
It says on the CDC website that a person
who is fearful because they suspect their partner
or because the condom broke,
should go on a sharp course, say a month,
of chemotherapy, of antiretrophar therapy
in order to stop getting infected.
Wow.
I mean, this is, you know, these are drugs,
when we use them against cancer,
we watch the patients like a hawk,
their hair falls out,
we get them off the drugs as soon as possible,
as soon as these patients are put on them for life.
When they die on these drugs,
they're said to die of AIDS.
The manufacturers warn on one of the drugs used,
this drug produces the same body wasting
as found in AIDS cases.
You see, it's very hard to attack an invisible virus.
The only, and this is true of all viruses,
we've only got vaccines that give us antibodies,
and then we claim that these antibodies stop the virus.
Or we try to stop the cell from making them,
because every virus that exists is made by cells.
They're made by plant cells, fish cells, human cells.
They're a natural product
that even healthy cells make viruses.
We're only now, leading biologists are now coming
to understand why they do this.
So to simply go from the presence of a virus
to say it's the cause of an illness,
is jumping a very, very big gun.
It's jumping a gorge.
Because,
see, our cells need to talk to each other.
They need to send genetic codes from one to another.
The wonderful Barbara McClintock, Nobel Laureate,
explained this, she was ridiculed at first.
She's an inspiring woman in biology.
She didn't guess her Nobel Laureate prize
when she got to her 80s.
Because what she had said was
that plant cells are intelligent.
And when she gave the Nobel Laureate speech,
she explained what she meant.
You see that all cells, whether they're in us or in plants,
are constantly sniffing their environment
and changing their DNA to give themselves protection.
So tobacco smoke, modern toxins go past.
The cell changes its DNA to give itself protection.
Every cell, from plant to a human,
has got five feet of DNA.
It's like gossamer.
It's like very fine silk.
And it's rolled into the tightest of all
in the center of every cell that exists.
And this is leading biology.
No one challenged it.
Five feet, tightly encoded in fours.
Computers encode in two.
So these long strands are packed with information.
And today our evolutionary biologists
are unraveling these codes.
Because these codes show how we evolved
over the last few millions, hundreds of millions of years.
Over a third of our genome has been shared between cells
because it's got the fingerprints of rectal pharces on it.
Because when a cell makes the codes it wants,
it does it with what is called a rectal transphosphon,
which like an engineer, that's only this size of a molecule.
And they are first described by the brilliant Barbara McIntock.
They work hard changing the DNA.
This is what hospital swimmer bugs do.
That's how they protect themselves against drugs
in hospitals.
And it's how my nose cells do, my fingers, everything does.
All cells do this.
They adjust their DNA to protect us.
Sometimes they will go, you're a reaper.
And say, right, we've got the answer.
This new bit of DNA is what we need, gives us protection.
Now we are multicellular creatures.
And it's silly to say that every cell of our body
has to invent the will for itself.
The next thing that little bit of code has to do
is to get to other cells.
It adds a small piece of DNA, called an MA domain,
to the end of a rectal transphosphon.
That turns it into a rectal pharmas.
Yes, the rectal pharmas, the same thing that we blame on AIDS.
The cell then buzzes out through its soft membrane, its skin,
which is very pliable.
Proteins form around it to protect the precious cargo
of a lovely new piece of DNA.
It goes out into the space between our cells.
It's got markers on the outside to tell the cells what
it's got inside it.
Other cells reach out for it, draw it into themselves,
take that precious cargo, and they put it in their inner
sanctum.
They put it in their genome, in their DNA.
They incorporate it.
That's how much they trust it.
And that's how they've done for the last 200 million years.
And that's why we find one third of our DNA
has been transported from cell to cell.
It's how we evolve.
It's how all creatures evolve.
The rectal pharmas is now being found
at the center for human life, for all life on our planet.
And this is transforming biology.
And yet, this is the very same concept
that Gallo and others were looking to say
was a pathology, the cause of AIDS.
We only have a few minutes left for this part
of our discussion.
Who else?
OK.
So sorry, guys.
So as I'm watching that again, I want
to return to something I said before, the reason.
Janine stayed with me when she came to New York
when this was filmed to be interviewed by Gary Nel.
I don't know how all the different factions, virus,
no virus, et cetera, lost sight of Janine.
But I'm doing my part to bring her back up.
So what I see here, and the reason I am obsessed
with Renée Girard also, when I say HIV, what is that?
It's in heavy quotation marks.
The ultimate scapegoat.
And it's painful to think of that these wizards
did this black magic, that they turned.
It's not just that they, retroviruses, if they exist,
et cetera, were innocent.
It's not just that HIV, quote unquote, was innocent.
It's that they, and it, and the whole cellular symphony,
was always on our side, helping us, helping us, helping us.
At the very same moment as these bastards, these virus hunter
men, these greedy, violent men, were branding these processes
as terrorists, out to get us, out to kill us.
The medium being human intimacy itself.
It is so wicked and so evil.
I can't get past that first entryway to the point where
I'm willing to fiddle with the science, which, again,
not very good at.
Because I think if you just look at the story of how they did that,
how they did that terror branding, the whole entire story is there.
And if you could throw that out, there would be nothing left
to tinker with, or to prove, or disprove.
I sometimes feel I'm good friends with Val Turner.
The work that Perth Group did was heroic and magnificent.
But I'm having a dialogue right now with Val Turner,
where I'm essentially saying, I mean, it's like the flip
side of the coin.
The orthodoxy says HIV causes AIDS, kills like a truck,
all this insanity.
And the counter-orthodoxy engages at that level.
No, it doesn't.
I think I feel today that was all important work, but it's still
part of the trap, if you will.
And I'm very interested in getting out of the trap altogether.
Thank you.
Celia, thank you.
So if you could stop your share screen.
So it's good practice to stop it, move your cursor to the top of your screen,
and give you the option to stop sharing.
There you are.
Well done.
You'll become a PowerPoint presenter on Zoom in no time.
Thank you for that deeply disturbing, insightful,
wise coverage.
And I honor your courage in facing that criticism and the attacks on you.
And there have been plenty of people here who have been attacked.
And it's an interesting question, isn't it?
Is life about avoiding being attacked?
Let's reach one of us to consider.
Stephen, as you know, Celia has the first 15 minutes of questions.
I'm sure he's ready to go.
And then anyone else who has questions and thoughts, please put your hand up.
But Stephen, over to you.
Yeah, Celia, it's very hard to follow that wonderful, brilliant presentation.
I don't think you understand how, at least you speak to some of us.
But to those people who get you, I think
you're just a wonderful storyteller.
And also you think aloud.
And at least to me, you really talk to me.
So Janine, I also picked up on your why I think you admire Janine.
More than anybody, as I understand it, you kind of have got her up there,
even a head of Peter Juesberg, maybe.
So Joanne, at the beginning of that clip, I think was describing a cult.
And much of the time you were talking, you were describing a cult, as I could see it.
A death cult.
Well, all cults are deadly, maybe.
Or potentially deadly.
But also the evil of what has happened
is that they've actually targeted human intimacy with HIV.
They've done it again.
They've done it again in 2020.
They love it, don't they?
They really love it.
So while you were talking, I was reminded that in the last summer,
I was talking to Kevin Corbett, who is another brilliant mind.
Brilliant mind.
And he was talking about the rise of virology.
And at the same time, he happened to mention that the immunology had declined in its influence.
And I said, well, those could be connected.
So I began to wonder whether they attacked immunology.
So you could hear Janine describing DNA changing all the time
to protect us.
So the immunologists knew all about the wonderful human immune system.
So complicated.
So complicated that we can't even conceive of.
How can we just look at it in wonder?
And not just immunology, of course.
Many things in the world and in the universe are just amazing
and beyond the ken of mere human beings.
And so it's not a matter of logic.
People say, oh, we're following the science.
But science is manmade, as I see it.
You know, so it's something else that determines things.
Yes, we can put Concorde at 69,000 feet and fly it to America in two hours and 50 minutes,
I think was the record.
And other amazing things.
And we can do it again and again.
We can reproduce it.
But the thing is that when it comes to life and death and illness,
I don't think that science has all the answers.
Indeed, when I was at medical school, we were specifically told
that the practice of medicine is not all about science.
It's an art as well.
So people have been saying we should follow the science.
I don't know where they got that from.
Because medicine is about warning people on hypotheses.
So a hypothesis doesn't come from science.
Yes, you might look at science, but you don't look solely at science.
Do you understand me?
So they attacked immunology to promote virology.
Is that a possibility in your mind?
Absolutely.
Very well said.
Virology was the destruction of immunology and epidemiology and all of it.
It was just the creation of terror and bombs, essentially, in biology.
The same thing.
And by the same people.
You know, this is the military-industrial complex.
The CDC, the NIH, the NCI, all these organizations are military.
I'm sure everybody here knows that.
But I think all of us have...
Peter Duisburg told me that a long time ago.
He said, you know, they're military.
I said, they are.
He said, yeah, you know, they march around.
They have uniforms.
And I started to think, oh, yeah, I think people don't realize this.
This is the military.
And in the military, you're not looking for mystery and revelation and exchange and surprises.
It's a domination hierarchy, absolutely.
And how to put this off is astounding.
So Celia, immunology includes the wonder of us human beings looking at
the amazing immune systems that we have.
And virology is all about oversimplifying the whole nonsense, you know?
The whole thing that we faced in 2020.
And HIV AIDS, you know, Kerry Mullis, who died in...
Well, I think he was probably killed.
They had to kill him.
He had to die, somehow or other.
In August 2019, he had said that...
So he'd been trying to get a paper.
He'd been asking all his colleagues whether they knew a paper.
HIV is the probable cause of AIDS.
That was the sentence he started with.
He ended up asking Montagne.
And Montagne tried to answer him.
And Kerry Mullis said, well, I'm not happy with that study.
I'm not happy with the other study he mentioned.
And then Montagne, in front of a crowd of people around them, walked away.
So Montagne was...
I didn't know whether to...
He also died in, I think it was February 2022,
about a week after a speech in Milan when he, I think, said
that the unvaccinated would save humanity.
Do you know about that?
Absolutely.
Montagne, in our world, in our days, in the late 80s, early 90s, was always...
He wasn't violent.
He didn't attack people.
He wasn't scary like the rest of them.
He introduced cofactors, cofactels.
And he got beaten, beaten, beaten.
They freaked...
I mean, the climate back then, if you even said...
If you're even, look, Montagne himself, and you say at an AIDS conference,
I think cofactors are important, they freaked out.
I mean, it was the end of the world.
There was one such conference where doctors started to come to the microphones and say...
I have...
One doctor said, I have patients who are...
They have AIDS, but they're HIV negative by every test.
And then more doctors streamed to the microphones and said,
yeah, I have some of those too.
And Fauci flew in on Air Force 2 and just quashed it.
It was like social...
It was so...
If you think of woke today and you think of the tripwires and the things that people say,
one word this way or that that gets them destroyed,
back then it was maybe there's a cofactor, maybe nutrition matters.
This was considered absolutely the most disgusting,
horrible, irresponsible stuff you could say.
And those people, to their shock, they would just get bludgeoned and bullied.
And so that taught everybody to say the mantra.
And the mantra was, HIV is the single and sufficient cause of AIDS.
Yeah.
And I think they had to do it in order to do what they did in 2020.
That's right.
They had to get all these crazy scientists behind them on the, you know, follow the signs.
And you got the test, you know, it's the same.
So they had a test with AIDS as well.
That was an antibody test, as I understand it.
And anybody who got positive, as you said,
who came back with the positive results of the antibody was given AZT.
But also, as you pointed out, I didn't, I think I've heard that before, but I'd forgotten
that actually anybody who thought they might have been infected
should start doing a month's course of AZT, one of the deadliest drugs ever,
passing the FDA.
Is that right?
Yeah, it is.
When they actually, the orthodoxy conceded in a very evil way that AZT was deadly.
The AZT fell from grace with the study called the Concord study.
I remember it well, 1993.
The head researcher, a man named Ian Weller, he was literally shaking and white,
so terrified when he gave the results that more people died on AZT.
So it was the first crack in the AZT empire.
And what they did, instead of just destroying and firing everybody,
they knew that the AZT jig was up, and they knew where they were going,
which was, I think there are now at least 100 drugs approved.
Well, they're called, sorry, how am I blanking out on this?
Well, the cocktail therapy, it was like a different class of drugs.
And the original drugs were called nukes, which is, you can hear it in the language,
nucleoside analogs.
And the new drugs were protease inhibitors, which Dave Raznik is a super expert on.
So what they did was instead of saying, you're right, a lot of people died,
we should all fire ourselves and denounce ourselves,
which I think any normal person would do.
My God, were we wrong?
What they did, and you see this all through COVID, is they turned it into,
they had mantras ready to go, they had woke speak ready to go.
And the woke speak that bridged them out of that was lessons learned.
They said, lessons learned.
In order for us to get on the holy road to protease inhibitors,
we had to learn, it's so narcissistic.
In other words, we've learned a lesson, not we killed 300,000 people,
we learned a lesson.
So they kind of throw glory on themselves as they go in their murderous path.
And they haven't changed.
I mean, literally, it's some of the same players, most chiefly Fauci,
but Birx and Redfield and all these guys were very well known to us.
Right, Dave?
So, back to the immunologist.
When I was at medical school, the immunologists were the kings of medicine.
The absolute, the most brilliant doctors went into immunology.
And now it's been cast aside.
So what you've got to put it clearly so that people understand,
watching the video later as well, is that they replaced the immunologists who had respect for,
for lack of a better way of putting it, God's work, if you like.
So the wonder, you know, of isn't nature amazing, you know,
and they replaced it with a deadly cult.
With a defective test, there wasn't a single symptom that was pathognomonic for COVID-19,
despite their attempts to say, oh, yes, loss of taste, loss of smell.
No, sorry, that used to happen to me when I had a cold,
and especially if I had flu, whatever flu is.
Whatever a cold is.
But anyway, so they replaced this kind of wonder, human wonder, by a death, deadly cult,
and took away the hope.
You said mind rape, I absolutely agree.
So two years ago, I said, as far as I could see,
what had taken place in the previous two years, it's now four years,
was a rape of the human soul.
And I was told by people, don't say that.
And I said, why not?
And there was some, especially Christians would object to it.
I didn't understand why.
To me, it was obvious that it was a rape of the human soul,
or an attempt to rape the human soul.
Maybe they didn't like the word rape.
But so what we have is that in the last four years,
it wasn't the virus that the people should have been afraid of,
it was the mind control.
Is that right?
Absolutely.
Thank you for that.
Absolutely.
Ding, ding, ding.
Exactly right.
We have to guard ourselves against what I call monarch programming.
If it feels like assault, meaning you're being controlled,
you're being asked to be afraid, you're being demeaned, diminished.
It's wrong.
No real doctor or healer would do that to a human being.
So you know you're in the presence of the cult.
Exactly.
So it wasn't the virus that people should have been afraid of in 2020.
It was the mind control.
Absolutely.
And our war was, I mean, I told you, they clobbered us,
they silenced us, they finished us off.
Sure.
So thank you so much.
Sure.
So thank you so much.
When it was time for COVID, the world was still a sitting duck.
If they knew about our war, they just knew,
oh, there was some guy named Peter Duisburg, and I think he was wrong.
All I ever read about him was that he was wrong.
And there was a mother who didn't give her child drugs,
and the child died and she died.
And that's all lies.
That's about our friend, Christine Maggiore.
So they selected scapegoats in the media who they presented as,
these people didn't believe HIV caused AIDS, they died,
they killed their children, and they had twisted everything around.
But they did a very good job of blocking people from looking into it.
So we're highly social animals, Celia.
So the intent of stopping intimate behavior,
stopping isolating people, if you like, because that's affected.
Was so anti-human as to be, well, it's very, it was very,
it is very obvious when you've had it pointed out to you.
And so what they did was evil, because they actually told people
that in order to save themselves and their families and everybody else,
they had to isolate themselves.
But that's anti-human.
So that's dreadful advice.
And yeah, from a doctor's,
so I should have realized sooner than I did that actually,
that, well, it was never, we were never told that at medical school,
but I've worked it out that we are highly social animals
and we need human contact, even if the human contact
is not with people we agree with.
It's much better to have contact with human beings
than not to have any contact with human beings at all.
And so isolating people through lockdowns was evil
and everyone should have known that.
And the big lesson for me of the last four years
is that we must never ever consider lockdowns again in the future.
And the UK government, Celia, at the moment is running an inquiry
and the conclusion that they want to get to
is that we didn't lock down early enough.
Sorry, no, we can't allow that.
It's brutality, as I said in my title, brutality,
brutality, dressed up.
If you and colleagues of yours who you know about
would like to write to the COVID inquiry in the UK
and tell them what's what about what we've just been talking about now,
I'd love to do that with you and with anybody else.
Ken Corbett would be one.
I think we need to do it.
Wonderful.
Could I tell you a quick story about COVID?
COVID and brutality from my own life.
Sure, absolutely.
It was 2020 peak of COVID hysteria
and my father was dying at home having nothing to do with any of this
except for that I think his spirit was affected by...
He was 90.
He was almost 90.
And my stepmother had tested positive.
I can't recall how they did that or who got access to her to test her.
She wasn't worried and naturally none of us were worried.
She wound up breaking her hip and she went into the hospital
and I thought, oh my God, what are they going to do?
I was negotiating to get her out and they wanted to keep her there
for all the reasons you can imagine.
And I fought to get her out and I said her husband, my father,
is dying and I need to get her home.
She needs to be with him before he dies.
And I got this doctor on the phone and I remember he asked me, he said,
is it safe to say that your father is on his deathbed?
And I said, yes.
Now they had given us, if we were to get Sarah, my stepmother, back
and out of the hospital, they told us we needed to sterilize,
like build, put plastic sheets and get an,
they would each have to have their own bathroom.
There were two bathrooms.
How crazy.
And hire staff and all and kept, like, in other words,
it was like a hostage crisis that we could get her back if we did all this.
And I said to this doctor,
doctor, they like to sit up in bed and hold hands and watch TV.
Can they do that?
And he said, it would be better if they didn't.
How ridiculous.
Yeah.
I got her out of there.
I got her out and I got her back and she got to see my father before he died.
But that mentality, it would be better if they didn't when he's dying and she,
I mean, it's so thick.
There are no words for it.
Yeah.
So he's dying and he can't do what he wants to do.
How ridiculous.
And he can't do what he wants to do.
How crazy.
I mean, I was saying I need to, he needs to have his wife and his wife needs to be next to him.
And he's dying.
What part of that do you not understand as a doctor?
Well, you know,
Forget the cold way he said it.
It would be better if they didn't, you know,
I told my sister, let's just obey.
Let's just say, yes, yes, we're going to do the two bathrooms and the plastic and
they wanted us to sterilize the whole bathroom after anybody used.
I mean, these people are absolutely out of their minds.
Well, let's hope that particular doctor doesn't reproduce.
Nice.
All right.
Let's get, thank you, Steven.
Great.
Here's the questions with our hands up and that's 20 minutes now.
So Celia, are you okay to keep going with questions?
Oh yeah.
I'm good.
All right.
I finished anyway, Charles.
Thank you very much, Celia.
Excellent.
Okay.
Peter, then Dave, Peter Underwood, unmute yourself.
All right.
Thank you, Charles.
Yeah.
Absolutely fascinating.
Thank you so much, Celia, for an absolutely stunning talk.
I'm absolutely overwhelmed by your precision.
I was doing a consultancy job in 1985 at the Welcome Foundation in London.
And I was staying in a hotel and I came back and there was a guy at the bar.
We had a drink before I went to bed.
And I got talking to him and he was a microbiologist working for Shell.
And I told him that I was doing this job at Welcome Foundation.
I had to put all these stuff on, these plastic things and shoes and goodness knows what,
to go through the lab because of the job that I was doing or the task I had.
And they said, you have to have this because we're working on HIV treatment.
And I explained this to him and I said, well, I was quite confused
about why I had to do all this stuff.
And he said, oh, he said, that's okay.
I understand that entirely.
He said, I sell bugs.
I said, what?
He said, I sell bugs.
I work for Shell and we genetically engineer bugs, which I sell.
I said, what sort of bugs?
And he said, well, take for example, the one I'm working on at the moment, which is a tracer bug.
He said, we wanted to know how far the sewage goes out and see or whatever.
And they created this bug or something or other to identify the density and of how far the sewage went.
And I said, do you know, I said, what's this HIV then?
He said, well, he said, I've heard about it.
He said, now, from my experience, I will have a conjecture.
He said, if the government came to me and said, look, what we'd like to do is to control drug
addicts.
And the best way to do that is to knock off the demand.
In other words, the drug users.
He said, if they said to me, well, could you make something, make a bug to control this area?
He said, what I'd do is I'd engineer a bug that would attack the immune system.
And thus, people would die of anything but the bug.
So that's plausible deniability.
He said, I would release it somewhere in African, which is pretty untraceable.
And I'd say, well, it's naturally occurred and now it's going to infect all these people.
He said, and because drug addicts use needles, I'd make sure that the bug would only be
transmitted by fluid, body fluids, things of this kind.
And he went on quite a length.
He said, I know nothing about this.
He said, I'm just kind of conjecturing as a microbiologist.
This is what I would do to deal with the problem.
That was 1985.
Looking back, I suspect that perhaps he might have conjectured right.
So I'd like to ask one question.
We spoke all of the last couple of hours about they, them, people in the ivory tower.
Jerry Brady that I work with very closely and I have identified what we think is they.
Do you have any ideas?
Excellent question.
I call them, I mean, there are many things.
They are globalists, fundamentally globalists, fundamentally technocrats.
So who are they?
Gates Foundation.
I can say what characteristics they have more easily than I can say exactly where they came
from.
They have this characteristic of we are a class of people that need to tell you people
all around the world, all the things that you're going to die of and you have to do as we say.
So I can say, I can hear them in three words as soon as they open their mouths.
I can recognize them.
I can see them.
I understand their mentality so well.
I understand their mentality so well and I guess you could say I sacrificed my, I mean,
I subjected myself to this cult in order to do my work and do these stories.
And I can't necessarily say, I can say what spawned them.
It's both industries, economic formations, parasitic rises of things, you know, of these
crazy ideas like single virus theory and so forth.
Yeah.
Sort of like whichever weak people who are spiritually open to possession, I would say.
People open to spiritual demonic possession.
That's what became this cult class around the world.
So it's easier for me to look at what kind of people and you look at a Tony Fauci or Rochelle
Walensky, you know, they speak the same.
I've written a lot about their speech patterns.
I'm all about, you know, words and the way you recognize their speech is that it's empty.
It's not connected to, it doesn't mean anything.
Like we're all talking.
We're connected to meaning.
It's language.
When you hear them talk, it's beyond propaganda.
It's like a dead coded language.
You never know what's behind it or what they mean.
But for me, I always feel a presence of threat.
And they're very, very dull and boring too.
And they speak like the cult.
We have to do this and we have to do that and everyone's going to die.
It's always everyone's going to die.
And with AIDS, they hated good news, right?
So they never said, guess what?
All your trillions of dollars, we've put a dent in it.
We're making headway.
It was always, everything was getting worse.
There was, and they love words like spread and alarming.
And with AIDS, it was, you were supposed to be aware, spreading awareness.
Lots of inversion, spreading awareness meant spreading propaganda and mind control.
So yeah, it doesn't quite answer your question in terms of who they are in the structure.
You know, they are the World Economic Foundation.
They are the Gates Foundation.
They are the global banking system.
They're the cabal.
They are the cabal.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Celia.
You have confirmed what Jerry and I have always come to the conclusion of that.
And you did touch on something that was very important for me.
And that is the essence of God, the spirit, and the beauty and magic of our existence
created by the creator.
And if, well, my defense is my faith.
My belief in a creator and his love and concern for each and every one of us.
I'm a Christian deist.
I believe in a creator and my moral code follows Jesus' teachings.
And I think you've answered the question.
Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Thank you for that.
I want to say one thing very briefly.
This is quite stunning.
If you go to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, I did this maybe three years ago.
And you look at their grants, who they give money to, which is everybody, everybody in media,
all the NGO, tons of money.
And that says at the very bottom, here's who we will never give money to.
Any religious organization.
You've nailed it.
Beautiful.
That's a great, great insight, everybody.
Thank you, Peter.
Thanks, David.
And Dave, just talk about breakdown of nations, because I think it's a very important principle
with what the WHO is trying to do in this whole selling of an idea of we need one world government,
you know, and Lawrence and Leopold courted so well to break that nonsense down.
But anyway, you go with your question in any event.
I'll tell Celia, such a pleasure and a joy to spend some time with you again.
I mean, you're one of my heroes.
And I mean, it's I can't even think of the words how to express what it was like,
reliving those years again, hearing the story that you were telling,
because you and I lived it, you know, it wasn't like somebody
that was telling the story, you know, and it was just something.
And I tell you what I think I never really was sad during the AIDS stuff.
But I feel like it never ended, as you as you pointed out, and it's just a continuum.
It's where we're at right now.
And it just led there.
And while there were so many, you know, the thing that a lot of folks,
we can't get into it, that went through those years were all the people that died,
all the good people, all the wonderful people, you know, and that's still going on,
going on now.
People that you and I know, Christy Majority, you brought her up and everything like that,
you know, and and I see Joan Shenton's here.
So pleased to see that Joan Shenton's here.
She's one of the warriors of those years and these years, too.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I just had to express my gratitude and just to say hi.
And what an emotional experience it is.
So I'll just let you go right there.
I just had to say something.
Thank you.
Thank you, Dave.
Can you hear me?
I can.
I'm so glad to see you.
Thank you.
It's been terrific to listen to you and to relive some of those horrifying moments of the past.
But so good to hear you and Dave.
Thank you.
I want to say one thing briefly.
Joan, so Joan and I were, we were the first generation AIDS dissidents.
Do you remember, Joan?
I remember when there were about five of us.
It was the London faction and the New York faction.
And Joan, I remember very early, it was maybe late 80s.
I remember finding out that Joan and she did such sensational work and still does at the
with her films.
And she came from the top of the media.
You were working, what was it, BBC Channel 4 and was just always an absolute superstar.
And they came after her.
So what I remember is there was some terrifying court in the UK where journalists were sort of
Broadcasting Complaints Commission.
And when I was in Granada most recently, I opened a folder.
I'd brought some stuff from New York and there it was all about how you were being brought
before the broad.
I have those documents.
And I remember the time being so frightened for you.
It was like some kind of Orwellian court and you were just right.
And you were so brave and you just.
And we lost.
But our editor at Channel 4, David Lloyd, famously said, it's like winning a football match
9-0 and being told you've lost.
Right.
You were brought before that court to degrade and humiliate you.
And I remember that was the beginning of the real terror when I realized and I said, wow,
in the UK, they have these weird courts where journalists get beaten up because they
insulted a pharmaceutical company.
I mean, it just didn't stop the tentacles.
But you.
Now that I have the opportunity, I interviewed Celia often in the films we made over the years.
13 documentaries and Dave Raznik is in them too.
And they're available for free download on our website called the Immunity Resource
Foundation.
So it's at immunity.org.UK.
Someone will type that into the chat.
Immunity.org.UK.
Thank you.
Well done, Joan, as being an AIDS dissident.
That's a useful thing.
Thank you for popping in there, Joan.
It's wonderful.
Thank you, Charles.
Dave.
Just hang on one second, Stephen.
Stephen, I have to go.
I've made you a co-host.
The recording will run.
You're in charge now, Stephen.
Everyone be alarmed.
Be very alarmed.
No, be concerned.
Charles, can you make someone else a co-host as well?
Tom's a co-host.
So we won't go to the Telegram group.
It'll keep recording.
Stay here as long as you like.
I have to go to an urgent meeting.
Stephen and Tom, you guys can run it.
No dramas.
Richard will be the next questioner after you, Stephen or Joan.
But Joan, it's great that you're here.
Thank you.
Julia, well done.
Stephen, well done.
Everyone keep going.
Yeah.
OK.
Thank you, Charles.